A closer look at the creative way kagyuoffice interprets prophecies

Dear Dharmafriends!

 

There was too much fighting in the Karma Kagyu lineage after the inbelievable life of the 16th Karmapa. He conquered the world. Where the late Karmapa went, the Dharma florished. After his death the fight began.

For me there is no problem if people have different believes. Me myself I have many. The whole thing with the two 17th Karmapas at least teaches us that we cannot ever be sure about what we think to be true. But when people start lying in order to “proove” their point of view, my tolerance is really on trial. Instead of adding emotions, I will try to analize the statements of the official website of His Holiness Ogyen Trinley Dorje.

Below the original statements from their webside – and in italics my commentaries:

 

http://kagyuoffice.org/traditional-materials-on-recognition-of-the-17th-karmapa/

Traditional Materials on Recognition of the 17th Karmapa

A Song (appx. 1940)
In approximately 1940, at the age of 17, His Holiness Rangjung Rigpe Dorje, the Sixteenth Karmapa, composed a song entitled simply A Song.

On the corresponding page kagyuoffice states that the 16th Karmapa predicts that Situpa will again be his root Lama. But actually he only wishs to meet his teacher “again and again” – which is quite normal, as he has received a lot of Dharma and blessing from him. Later the 16th Karmapa installed  Shamarpa as “Souvereign of the lineage”, which prooves that Situpa was not the one and only choosen heart son of the late Karmapa.

The Melodious Hum of the Bee (1944)
In 1944, the 16th Karmapa published another song foreseeing the flight from Tibet, expressing his sadness at being forced to leave the glorious seat of the Kagyu at Tsurphu Monastery.
Background: Songs of the 16th Karmapa

An the corresponding page kagyuoffice writes:

Thrangu Rinpoche interprets the prediction: ”The Lord of the Path” refers to the astrological path or cycle of twelve years and the “king of birds” refers to the year of the bird, when the XVIIth Karmapa will be back in his monastery, beginning his activity again.

Actually Karmapa Thaye Dorje reached his monastery – the KIBI in Delhi – in the bird year which includes the january 1994 when he reached India, not Ogyen Trinle, who reached Tsurphu in the monkey year 1992. See detailed analysis here.

Blissful Roar Of Melodius Experience (1961-62)
In 1961-62, upon his arrival in India, the 16th praised Tsurphu Monastery and spoke of returning to that “pure realm,” but evidenced no intention to return during his lifetime. After his passing, it gradually became clear that the 16th Karmapa’s reference to his return to Tsurphu was a prediction about the 17th Karmapa.
Background: Songs of the 16th Karmapa

The poem was published in 1962, but written in Tsurphu and doesn’t predict that he would return there at all.

Vision of Chogyur Dechen Lingpa (mid-19th century)
Details of the Seventeenth Karmapa’s life were foretold with startling prescience in the vision of Chogyur Dechen Lingpa (1829-1870), a great nonsectarian master and one of the most renowned discoverers (“tertöns”) of sacred hidden texts of the last few centuries.

Background: Vision of Chogyur Dechen Lingpa

This is more complicated. The prediction reffered to was copied by hand in the 80ies. There are differend versions of the prophecy. Sylvia Wong pesents another version which seems to proove that Lingpa might have meant the 16th Karmapa when he spoke about the 17th: The first 15th Karmapa died early and was not included in the golden rosary of the Karmapas – and not count neither. That means that the predictions of Chokgyur Lingpa could actually decribe the 16th Karmapa’s life. More about that here.

A Prophecy of the Fifth Karmapa (early 15th century)
Some of the details of the Seventeenth Karmapa’s life were foretold in the prophecy of the Fifth Karmapa, who predicted that the 17th Karmapa would triumph over obstacles which would threaten the continuity of the Kagyu lineage.

Background: Prophecy of the Fifth Karmapa

The prediction was translated wrongly. Michele Martin translated „Natha“, the troublemaker in the prophecy, as „nephew like relation“, which points to Shamarpa and Topga Rinpoche both the 16th Karmapa’s nephew. But there is no base whatsoever to translate „natha“ as nephew. Many have pointed out that the translation was erroneous. kagyuoffice can’t say they don’t know. To be sure they know I wrote them. Still the misinterpretation is on their website. For a detailed analysis see: here.

The Sacred Letter of Prediction (1981)
In January of 1981, the 16th Gyalwang Karmapa, gave to his heart son, the Xllth Tai Situpa, a sealed protection amulet with a brocade cover, and said, “This is your protection amulet. In the future, it will confer great benefit.” Many years later, the amulet was discovered to contain the prediction letter for the rebirth of His Holiness.

Background: Sacred Letter of Prediction

The autheticity of the prediction letter was doubted by Shamar Rinpoche and Dzongsar Khyentse Rinpoche. See: here.

 

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